Comments on: The Long Shadow of Hassan-i-Sabbah http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/ All that flavorful brownness in one savory packet Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:11:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Riza Elahi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-285874 Riza Elahi Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:36:12 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-285874 <p>Ismail Kaygusuz in his book Hasan Sabah and Alamut (in Turkish) wrote the following:</p> <p>“Hasan Sabbah's Alamut nation built on the basis of peace, equality and equal distribution lasted for 176 years. Alamut was a nation stretching from the Pamir mountains to the southeastern Mediterranean and Palestine governed by 300 head, who worked in coordination without private property, under fort settlements called “Dar ul Hijar” (migrant homes</p> <p>“Hasan Sabbah did not train assassins (killers), not did he establish a narcotic heaven in his fortress nation as claimed by his enemies. But the fact that his enemies (the Sunni Baghdad Caliphs, the Selchuk Sultans, Crusaders, Mongols) were superior in numbers, propagated his Alamut defense in a guerrilla image. It is known that Hasan Sabbah trained an armed unit of select warriors (fedayin). Contrary to these “fedayin” claims, assassinations were conducted only against officials, who were oppressors.”</p> Ismail Kaygusuz in his book Hasan Sabah and Alamut (in Turkish) wrote the following:

“Hasan Sabbah’s Alamut nation built on the basis of peace, equality and equal distribution lasted for 176 years. Alamut was a nation stretching from the Pamir mountains to the southeastern Mediterranean and Palestine governed by 300 head, who worked in coordination without private property, under fort settlements called “Dar ul Hijar” (migrant homes

“Hasan Sabbah did not train assassins (killers), not did he establish a narcotic heaven in his fortress nation as claimed by his enemies. But the fact that his enemies (the Sunni Baghdad Caliphs, the Selchuk Sultans, Crusaders, Mongols) were superior in numbers, propagated his Alamut defense in a guerrilla image. It is known that Hasan Sabbah trained an armed unit of select warriors (fedayin). Contrary to these “fedayin” claims, assassinations were conducted only against officials, who were oppressors.”

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By: Riza Elahi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-285873 Riza Elahi Tue, 02 Aug 2011 07:33:35 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-285873 <p>Ismail Kaygusuz in his book Hasan Sabah and Alamut (in Turkish) wrote the following:</p> <p>“Hasan Sabbah's Alamut nation built on the basis of peace, equality and equal distribution lasted for 176 years. Alamut was a nation stretching from the Pamir mountains to the southeastern Mediterranean and Palestine governed by 300 head, who worked in coordination without private property, under fort settlements called “Dar ul Hijar” (migrant homes</p> <p>“Hasan Sabbah did not train assassins (killers), not did he establish a narcotic heaven in his fortress nation as claimed by his enemies. But the fact that his enemies (the Sunni Baghdad Caliphs, the Selchuk Sultans, Crusaders, Mongols) were superior in numbers, propagated his Alamut defense in a guerrilla image. It is known that Hasan Sabbah trained an armed unit of select warriors (fedayin). Contrary to these “fedayin” claims, assassinations were conducted only against officials, who were oppressors.”</p> Ismail Kaygusuz in his book Hasan Sabah and Alamut (in Turkish) wrote the following:

“Hasan Sabbah’s Alamut nation built on the basis of peace, equality and equal distribution lasted for 176 years. Alamut was a nation stretching from the Pamir mountains to the southeastern Mediterranean and Palestine governed by 300 head, who worked in coordination without private property, under fort settlements called “Dar ul Hijar” (migrant homes

“Hasan Sabbah did not train assassins (killers), not did he establish a narcotic heaven in his fortress nation as claimed by his enemies. But the fact that his enemies (the Sunni Baghdad Caliphs, the Selchuk Sultans, Crusaders, Mongols) were superior in numbers, propagated his Alamut defense in a guerrilla image. It is known that Hasan Sabbah trained an armed unit of select warriors (fedayin). Contrary to these “fedayin” claims, assassinations were conducted only against officials, who were oppressors.”

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By: Kumaran http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17693 Kumaran Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:13:43 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17693 <p>I find the LTTE's characterization as Marxist-Leninst quite comical given the group's rejection of this philosophy despite the presence of some members with seasonal Marxist inclinations. Indeed, the LTTE pretty much politically and militarily decimated other rebel Tamil groups in the 1980s that did officially toe the socialist line. This is still very much evident if one reads through the Fourth International's World Socialist Website section on Sri Lanka. Its movement is motivated by ethnic grievances rather than any imagined or real emancipation of the lower classes. To also answer Razib's question, it would seem that most members would be of Hindu origin as population demographics would dictate this but I do find that a number of its more influential spokespersons are Christians and as in Latin American movements, there is quite a bit of fraternizing between the Church and the LTTE in Tamil areas. Definitely more so than between the Temple and the LTTE as I doubt if the latter's formal mandate for anti-caste agitations and "pure Tamil" language movement sits well with the conservative Saivite population of the Jaffna Peninsula that adores its caste heirachy and venerates its sanskritized rituals.</p> I find the LTTE’s characterization as Marxist-Leninst quite comical given the group’s rejection of this philosophy despite the presence of some members with seasonal Marxist inclinations. Indeed, the LTTE pretty much politically and militarily decimated other rebel Tamil groups in the 1980s that did officially toe the socialist line. This is still very much evident if one reads through the Fourth International’s World Socialist Website section on Sri Lanka. Its movement is motivated by ethnic grievances rather than any imagined or real emancipation of the lower classes. To also answer Razib’s question, it would seem that most members would be of Hindu origin as population demographics would dictate this but I do find that a number of its more influential spokespersons are Christians and as in Latin American movements, there is quite a bit of fraternizing between the Church and the LTTE in Tamil areas. Definitely more so than between the Temple and the LTTE as I doubt if the latter’s formal mandate for anti-caste agitations and “pure Tamil” language movement sits well with the conservative Saivite population of the Jaffna Peninsula that adores its caste heirachy and venerates its sanskritized rituals.

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By: Abhi http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17681 Abhi Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:07:27 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17681 <p>Hassan-i-Sabbah <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article301883.ece">lives on</a>:</p> <blockquote>Said Ibrahim was also reported to have grown a beard and to have begun wearing traditional dress. A neighbour of Ibrahim, Sarah Scott, age 23, who lives two doors down from the Stanmore home Ibrahim used to live with his parents, described a conversation they had last November. "We were standing outside our houses chatting. He asked me if I was religious and I said I did not believe in anything. He said I should. He <b>told me he was going to get 80 virgins when he got to heaven if he praised Allah</b>.</blockquote> Hassan-i-Sabbah lives on:

Said Ibrahim was also reported to have grown a beard and to have begun wearing traditional dress. A neighbour of Ibrahim, Sarah Scott, age 23, who lives two doors down from the Stanmore home Ibrahim used to live with his parents, described a conversation they had last November. “We were standing outside our houses chatting. He asked me if I was religious and I said I did not believe in anything. He said I should. He told me he was going to get 80 virgins when he got to heaven if he praised Allah.
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By: Zahir http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17591 Zahir Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:08:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17591 <p>Your illustration of Sabbah is entirely inaccurate. Read Farhad Duftary's extensive writings on the issue in his books "The Assassin Legends" and "The Ismailis." The fact of the matter is that the Ismailis of Alamut were the complete opposite of Al-Qaeda. The Alamut library was a known place of learning, and was visited by prominent Muslim, Jewish, and Christian scholars of the day (that library was destroyed in the Mongol invasion). Very different from the fascist and brain-dead ideology of the Salafists and Jihadists today.</p> <p>The fact of the matter was that it was the rival Sunni Muslim and adverse Christian Sects that were the enemies of Alamut and the Ismailis, and it was they who spread the "Assassin" myths about the drugs and the gardens. Simply fake.</p> Your illustration of Sabbah is entirely inaccurate. Read Farhad Duftary’s extensive writings on the issue in his books “The Assassin Legends” and “The Ismailis.” The fact of the matter is that the Ismailis of Alamut were the complete opposite of Al-Qaeda. The Alamut library was a known place of learning, and was visited by prominent Muslim, Jewish, and Christian scholars of the day (that library was destroyed in the Mongol invasion). Very different from the fascist and brain-dead ideology of the Salafists and Jihadists today.

The fact of the matter was that it was the rival Sunni Muslim and adverse Christian Sects that were the enemies of Alamut and the Ismailis, and it was they who spread the “Assassin” myths about the drugs and the gardens. Simply fake.

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By: kev http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17300 kev Mon, 25 Jul 2005 17:26:21 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17300 <p>i've never heard anyone call hassan bin sabbah a great hero, but certainly there's some popular sentiment that osmama bin laden is a hero too.</p> <p>today, it's nearly impossible to kill the tyrants and their couriers - not only do they have the best protection money can buy, but killing the leader of one administration won't mean an end to neo-colonial meddling in the arab-muslim world.</p> <p>one might also argue that even 'innocent people' are responsible for said policies in ways that weren't true in previous centuries - after all, it's believed we live in a democracy, and that the authority of our leaders is only legitimate pending the approval of the majority. in the past, it was believed that a king was appointed by god over a given territory, and the people had only to obey. in short, it's only a difference in tactics.</p> i’ve never heard anyone call hassan bin sabbah a great hero, but certainly there’s some popular sentiment that osmama bin laden is a hero too.

today, it’s nearly impossible to kill the tyrants and their couriers – not only do they have the best protection money can buy, but killing the leader of one administration won’t mean an end to neo-colonial meddling in the arab-muslim world.

one might also argue that even ‘innocent people’ are responsible for said policies in ways that weren’t true in previous centuries – after all, it’s believed we live in a democracy, and that the authority of our leaders is only legitimate pending the approval of the majority. in the past, it was believed that a king was appointed by god over a given territory, and the people had only to obey. in short, it’s only a difference in tactics.

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By: Lovin http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17296 Lovin Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:49:52 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17296 <p><i>Pardon me for my whitey ignorance, but if a Sikh ain't wearing a turban and a beard and a Muslim ain't wearing a skullcap and a lunghi, how DOES one tell the difference?</i></p> <p>i'm talking about the sikhs and muslims that do dress old school. Ask any Sikh in the US what they felt like after 9/11 as everyone accused them of being Taliban and they were getting beaten up and killed. That won't make news here bcuz as i've said before, hate crimes only happen when the victims are black, or sometimes latino.</p> Pardon me for my whitey ignorance, but if a Sikh ain’t wearing a turban and a beard and a Muslim ain’t wearing a skullcap and a lunghi, how DOES one tell the difference?

i’m talking about the sikhs and muslims that do dress old school. Ask any Sikh in the US what they felt like after 9/11 as everyone accused them of being Taliban and they were getting beaten up and killed. That won’t make news here bcuz as i’ve said before, hate crimes only happen when the victims are black, or sometimes latino.

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By: truth http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17285 truth Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:53:32 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17285 <p>There is no similarity between Hassan Bin Sabbah and Osama Bin Laden. Hassan Bin Sabbah oredered to kill the Kings the theier courtiers who declared war on him and killed his people. those who declared war against him were to be given biffitted reply. He never killed innocent people. Even at the time of wars he prefered to kill one man rather that to cleanse the whole army. So it is my request to not to match the great hero Hassan bin Sabbah and Osama bIn Laden.( who used to kill general Public)</p> There is no similarity between Hassan Bin Sabbah and Osama Bin Laden. Hassan Bin Sabbah oredered to kill the Kings the theier courtiers who declared war on him and killed his people. those who declared war against him were to be given biffitted reply. He never killed innocent people. Even at the time of wars he prefered to kill one man rather that to cleanse the whole army. So it is my request to not to match the great hero Hassan bin Sabbah and Osama bIn Laden.( who used to kill general Public)

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By: Ananthan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17143 Ananthan Sat, 23 Jul 2005 23:44:48 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17143 <blockquote>I started off saying "trying to explain/understand exactly why people turn to terrorism - the motivations, circumstances etc</blockquote> <p>Fine, point taken. I still think it's a misleading analogy, but whatever.</p> I started off saying “trying to explain/understand exactly why people turn to terrorism – the motivations, circumstances etc

Fine, point taken. I still think it’s a misleading analogy, but whatever.

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By: Ananthan http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2005/07/22/the_long_shadow_1/comment-page-2/#comment-17141 Ananthan Sat, 23 Jul 2005 23:40:38 +0000 http://sepiamutiny.com?p=1877#comment-17141 <blockquote>Look, I never said this: "tamil youth in the west being actively involved in the violent independence struggle?" <i>[silly personal insult removed]</i> I never even said anything about "Tamil youth" I said young LTTE supporters</blockquote> <p>My bad, I saw the two as interchangeable. My point stands though - "young LTTE supporters in North America" aren't involved in terrorism. No suicide bombings have been carried out by them and you have no proof that they have "amplified" the views of their parents. So don't equate them with the london bombers.</p> Look, I never said this: “tamil youth in the west being actively involved in the violent independence struggle?” [silly personal insult removed] I never even said anything about “Tamil youth” I said young LTTE supporters

My bad, I saw the two as interchangeable. My point stands though – “young LTTE supporters in North America” aren’t involved in terrorism. No suicide bombings have been carried out by them and you have no proof that they have “amplified” the views of their parents. So don’t equate them with the london bombers.

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