As I said, the Bush family is very clannish:

Governor Bush… suggested that his presence on the trip would send a powerful message of sympathy. “I think family matters in a lot of places, just as it does in the United States,” the governor said. He recalled in 1988 being asked by his father to travel to Armenia… “We went, and it made a big difference that a family member would go…”

What of the other symbols on the seal? Also, the cross was put on the seal to show a historical link between California and its missions.

I no way do I see the seal preaching to me. Where do you draw the line when trying to represent something with historical significance?

As mentioned previously, the ACLU HAS done good and continues to do so in plenty of cases all over the country. But it also disappoints me with the lack of consistency at times it approaches similar problems with.

The ACLU is neither evil nor the bastion of all that is good, as is in the case of most large and powerful groups it is somewhere in between.

“conservatives should just shut up or liberals will have to expose their self-righteous ignoramus ramblings for what they are worth.” ??? now THAT is whining. and i think i read it on my friend’s brother’s blog a few weeks ago, only switch ‘conservative’ and ‘liberal’…

if only all debaters of politics could write like vinod instead of resorting to ad hominem arguments… (or distracting people with shiny things, as is my preferred modus operandi, since i know nothing in life)

BRILLIANT use of an array of prominent Liberals (including a comedian!) to impartially point out why evil conservatism is, uh, evil.

And double congrats on the “Brown Sahib” remark – it really elevates debate and gives all of us the warm fuzzies about you & your position…

“We are once again marching to the US embassy to protest the continuing and heightening brutality of the Bush regime towards the Iraqi people,” Rita Baua, secretary-general of the ILPS-Philippines Chapter stated at the start of the march towards the US embassy today. Baua was referring to the bombing of mosques, firing on vehicles bringing wounded Iraqis to the hospitals, firing of rockets at civilian communities and residential neighborhoods, thereby killing, maiming, or wounding innocent children, elderly, women, especially in Fallujah which is being punished by the US for the killing of four US soldiers. According to the ILPS Philippines Chapter leader, Fallujah is being sealed, besieged. Reports indicate that 280 Iraqi have been killed and 400 wounded in Fallujah alone, and 460 in the whole country since last week. Furthermore, there is neither supply of water and food.”

Our staunch critics of ACLU are great believers in the wonderful philosophy of conservatism – a doctrine that has long been bankrupt as Brad DeLong points out

Of course conservatism is not a reliable friend of human liberty. Conservatism is a combination of four currents: “change is bad,” “things were better when my grandfather was a boy,” “what our ancestors have handed down to use may be false, but we shouldn’t inquire into it because it is useful,” and “I’ve got mine, Jack, and the lower orders need to be more respectful.” These are not the soil in which the tree of liberty grows.

Brown sahibs like gc, vinod and razib can support a system of unequal exploitation obviously because they are great believers in the trickle down economics, expounded brilliantly by Bill Maher

“Republican philosophy is based on the fact that a tiny percentage of fat-cats can convince millions of people, who could never be fat-cats that they might. How else do you sell ‘Trickle Down Economics?’ How else does that sound good? They are practically saying, ‘We’re pissing on you.’”

Further Matthew Yglesias clearly shows that conservatives and Islamic Jihadis think alike (well exemplified here by the depraved mindset of gc, vinod and razib) – both constantly play victim and feel subjugated

• Political leaders and media figures suffer from a “proneness to exaggeration.” • Rather than confronting awkward facts, there’s a “tendency to substitute words for action and a desired outcome for a less palatable reality, or to indulge in wishful thinking” • Related is the “tendency to blame others” (especially Bill Clinton or the ‘liberal media’) for problems. • An odd “pervasive belief that God provides and disposes of all human activity.” • Much of this related to their “often cavalier attitude toward safety precautions” as seen in the preference for ‘going on the offense’ rather than engaging in proper homeland security.

To hear these conservatives whine constantly, a neutral observer would actually believe John Kerry won the election. Take for example a frequent whine by the likes of vinod – the liberal media elite who constantly spin and distort news to their own sinister ends. As David Croteau shatters the myth of the liberal media bias in his study Examining the “Liberal Media” Claim

• On select issues from corporate power and trade to Social Security and Medicare to health care and taxes, journalists are actually more conservative than the general public. • Journalists are mostly centrist in their political orientation. • The minority of journalists who do not identify with the “center” are more likely to identify with the “right” when it comes to economic issues and to identify with the “left” when it comes to social issues. • Journalists report that “business-oriented news outlets” and “major daily newspapers” provide the highest quality coverage of economic policy issues, while “broadcast network TV news” and “cable news services” provide the worst.

Like I said before, conservatives should just shut up or liberals will have to expose their self-righteous ignoramus ramblings for what they are worth.

It’s not anti-Christian in the least. Putting a religious symbol on a government seal was overreaching in the first place. Separation of church and state.

i know it is only one … too drunk to research more right now but i’ll find them later if u want (email me)… but it shows that there is no overarching antichristianagenda going on with ACLU

oh here is another… intrareligious stuff but it’s still protecting a christian to be the kind of christian he wants

they are here to protect our rights….. i would be VERY glad there is an organization out there with the legal know how to DO this, even in these days…

if u want to find more… try this link… view all.. surely there are more

aclu is not evil… i actually disagree with their support of the call to prayer case… but that does not mean i hate them and all that they do.

They have done a good job in many cases where there was a problem, however they have done plenty of disservice also in not representing many other cases or pushing an agenda that has become more ideological in nature of “what should America look like” and attempting to legislate through the courts. Gun laws are an excellent example where the NRA has taken the mantle to fight. Plenty of conservative groups are now fighting cases that clearly the ACLU should be on the same page with, but unfortunately they simply stay out of it.

The Los Angeles county seal with the cross in it is a good example of them pushing an anti-christian agenda, which in many ways constitutes a prejudice. A pagan goddess is ok, so is a star, but the cross violates seperation of church and state? Nativity scenes in schools or the mention of Christmas violates church and state ( Chirstmas is Federal holiday), but the celebration of minority holidays like Id or Hannukah is ok?

Their basic assumption is that the Christian majority is oppressive. Fine, either take a stand that France has and ban all relgious symbol from public schools (which I do not support) or let EVERYONE have an equal shot (which was the original idea), yes, this means the ‘oppressive christians’ also get to celebrate their holidays.

Consistency is the key and the ACLU as of late have been very incosistent in applying their own rules to ‘protect’ civil liberties. I am not a Christian nor religious, but if you want to go around as the self appointed protector of civil liberties then they should not push their own hypocratic agendas under the guise of trying to protect people.

What are they going to do next, attack the Churchs (and obviously pass upon the Mosques) for not allowing Gays to be ministers or preachers?

i’m not villifying the ACLU, i’m saying that selective about what rights it chooses to defend, to portray it as a generalized civil libertarian outfit is probably not tenable. if you want to defend the right to publish porn, call the ACLU, but if you want to defend the right to bear arms, call the NRA.